I had a bad experience with a Gigabyte power supply that I bought from Newegg, so I posted a review of it reflecting my opinion of it. The manufacturer's response seemed humorous, so I thought you might enjoy it. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010
My favorite part of their reply: "As bottom positioned layout is not considered common and usually only used in weaker chassis (lowering the center of mass, so the soft chassis might survive), the superb is not designed to fit such un common chassis."
So all cases that mount PSs on the bottom are made of "soft" metal that will collapse if the PS were to be mounted on top? lmfao
ShadowTek wrote: > I had a bad experience with a Gigabyte power supply that I bought from > Newegg, so I posted a review of it reflecting my opinion of it. The > manufacturer's response seemed humorous, so I thought you might > enjoy it. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010
> My favorite part of their reply: > "As bottom positioned layout is not considered common and usually only > used in weaker chassis (lowering the center of mass, so the soft chassis > might survive), the superb is not designed to fit such un common > chassis."
> So all cases that mount PSs on the bottom are made of "soft" metal that > will collapse if the PS were to be mounted on top? lmfao
A credit to Newegg for allowing feedback from both the customer and mfg... but you are right the response was absurd.
In message <slrnhio44m.ecd.Shadow...@shadowtek.localdomain> ShadowTek <Shadow...@invalid.invalid> was claimed to have wrote:
>I had a bad experience with a Gigabyte power supply that I bought from >Newegg, so I posted a review of it reflecting my opinion of it. The >manufacturer's response seemed humorous, so I thought you might >enjoy it. >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010
>My favorite part of their reply: > "As bottom positioned layout is not considered common and usually only >used in weaker chassis (lowering the center of mass, so the soft chassis >might survive), the superb is not designed to fit such un common >chassis."
>So all cases that mount PSs on the bottom are made of "soft" metal that >will collapse if the PS were to be mounted on top? lmfao
Wow. As a potential consumer, I'd be much happier with a "our PSU simply isn't designed for that type of case" rather then a supplier who attempts to attack the hardware I already selected.
I can't speak to "most" cases that place the PSU on the bottom, but I have one case that does and it's probably the strongest case I own, with the whole system easily weighing double any other desktop I own, although not quite as much as my full tower servers loaded to capacity with drives.
*shrugs* Gigabyte is currently on my shitlist anyway, so I guess I don't count as a "lost" customer.
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:30:30 +0000 (UTC), ShadowTek
<Shadow...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >I had a bad experience with a Gigabyte power supply that I bought from >Newegg, so I posted a review of it reflecting my opinion of it. The >manufacturer's response seemed humorous, so I thought you might >enjoy it. >http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010
>My favorite part of their reply: > "As bottom positioned layout is not considered common and usually only >used in weaker chassis (lowering the center of mass, so the soft chassis >might survive), the superb is not designed to fit such un common >chassis."
>So all cases that mount PSs on the bottom are made of "soft" metal that >will collapse if the PS were to be mounted on top? lmfao
It is a little crazy, but you didn't necessarily have to graft in a length of wire and I'd have sent a $70 PSU back before voiding the warranty, especially if it had free shipping when purchased and you insist on no restocking fee since they didn't list cable lengths.
The 12V extension cables are probably cheaper somewhere else though, Newegg seems to want at least a few bucks for shipping anything unless you're buying more at the time so shipping cost is divided among several items.
> *shrugs* Gigabyte is currently on my shitlist anyway, > so I guess I don't count as a "lost" customer.
What did they do?
I've been happy with the products I've purchased, but annoyed by a rebate on a recent motherboard. I understand that 3 months is fairly "typical for the industry," but still don't like have to jump through hoops.
When I complained to them that I did not like the idea that they were gambling on me not being able to properly claim my rebate, and that put them in an adversarial relationship with me, it sailed over their heads. <grinds teeth />
I wish I could have purchased a half dozen of those motherboards, but their fucking rebate pooched the deal.
ShadowTek wrote: > I had a bad experience with a Gigabyte power supply that I bought from > Newegg, so I posted a review of it reflecting my opinion of it. The > manufacturer's response seemed humorous, so I thought you might > enjoy it. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010
> My favorite part of their reply: > "As bottom positioned layout is not considered common and usually only > used in weaker chassis (lowering the center of mass, so the soft chassis > might survive), the superb is not designed to fit such un common > chassis."
> So all cases that mount PSs on the bottom are made of "soft" metal that > will collapse if the PS were to be mounted on top? lmfao
Thank you. I will add Gigabyte (Gigglebyte?) to my lunatic list. Allen
> ShadowTek wrote: >> I had a bad experience with a Gigabyte power supply that I bought from >> Newegg, so I posted a review of it reflecting my opinion of it. The >> manufacturer's response seemed humorous, so I thought you might >> enjoy it. >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010
>> My favorite part of their reply: >> "As bottom positioned layout is not considered common and usually only >> used in weaker chassis (lowering the center of mass, so the soft chassis >> might survive), the superb is not designed to fit such un common >> chassis."
>> So all cases that mount PSs on the bottom are made of "soft" metal that >> will collapse if the PS were to be mounted on top? lmfao > Thank you. I will add Gigabyte (Gigglebyte?) to my lunatic list. > Allen
In agreement that the Gigabyte response to the oscillation is ridiculous. But since the warranty is now voided and you have the noise problem I might try throwing in some fabricated rubber washers between the PS and the case to just try to limit any kind of vibration and see if it could help to stop the noise. If it doesn't then it's completely a problem from within the PS case and for that I would be contacting Gigabyte for either a replacement or refund of your money. Adding a few inches of wire onto the cpu connector would have nothing to do with the oscillation. -- Jan Alter bear...@verizon.net
In message <jemdnXl3Gf8UHLHWnZ2dnUVZ_hydn...@mchsi.com> Grinder <grin...@no.spam.maam.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>On 12/18/2009 8:57 PM, DevilsPGD wrote: >> *shrugs* Gigabyte is currently on my shitlist anyway, >> so I guess I don't count as a "lost" customer.
>What did they do?
I was a loyal Gigabyte fan for several builds (with a single Super Micro transgression -- The single best board I've ever owned), so I didn't even think twice when I was hunting for a new PC.
I don't even recall the model number anymore, but it was high end and too new to have any real reviews (okay, that was my fault), it was just a case of one thing after another didn't work, had quirks, etc.
The board was barely stable in it's default configuration, some of the components just didn't seem to like each other, stuff like using both on-board RAID and higher bandwidth USB 2 devices would bluescreen, their solution would be to stop using one or the other to make the problem go away, then the case would get closed.
I had RAM compatibility problems, their response was to look at their list of compatible RAM. The fact that my RAM was on the list, and was proven-good in another system didn't seem to matter.
Unfortunately for me, a couple of my friends bought identical systems knowing that I'd have done all the research and only bought quality gear, we all had similar issues, so it made me look like an idiot.
Eventually they offered to swap my board (although not my friends' boards) for another one, I suggested a different replacement since the one they suggested was missing Firewire headers (just had ports on the back, so it met their checklist of compatible features) or something specific I wanted, so I suggested a cheaper replacement option, they agreed, shipped their initial offering anyway and refused to discuss the matter since I had received a more expensive board.
This being my first, last and only experience with a motherboard manufacturer's technical support, I was rather disillusioned.
I eBay'd the replacement, switched to ASUS and haven't looked back. Not that the ASUS has been 100% painless, but it does what I need.
Honestly I realize it's probably a one-off anecdotal case, and everyone makes a lemon here and there and horrible support isn't really unexpected these days either, and given that I so rarely use tech support, shifty support isn't a deal breaker -- The lesson is to buy from a vendor with a better return policy.
ShadowTek <Shadow...@invalid.invalid> wrote: > I had a bad experience with a Gigabyte power supply that I bought from > Newegg, so I posted a review of it reflecting my opinion of it. The > manufacturer's response seemed humorous, so I thought you might > enjoy it. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817233010
> My favorite part of their reply: > "As bottom positioned layout is not considered common and usually > only used in weaker chassis (lowering the center of mass, so the soft > chassis might survive), the superb is not designed to fit such un > common chassis."
> So all cases that mount PSs on the bottom are made of "soft" metal > that will collapse if the PS were to be mounted on top? lmfao
Gigabyte was right to bitch about the design of your case. Unfortunately, Gigabyte chose the wrong reason to pan it. Obviously cases with bottom mount power supplies can be very sturdily constructed. But it's just plain WRONG to put the power supply on the bottom. Most (almost all, probably) power supplies have cords that are two short for this configuration. Note I know that there is a new standard called BTX, but it was supposed to be mainstream years ago. I'll bet most readers of this ng still haven't heard of it, so... I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will have a problem with. -Dave
In message <20091219211331.c9c1e1f9.no...@nohow.never> "Dave C." <no...@nohow.never> was claimed to have wrote:
>Gigabyte was right to bitch about the design of your case. >Unfortunately, Gigabyte chose the wrong reason to pan it. Obviously >cases with bottom mount power supplies can be very sturdily >constructed. But it's just plain WRONG to put the power supply on the >bottom. Most (almost all, probably) power supplies have cords that are >two short for this configuration. >Note I know that there is a new standard called BTX, but it was >supposed to be mainstream years ago. I'll bet most readers of this ng >still haven't heard of it, so... >I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX >case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will >have a problem with. -Dave
Wrong... Why? Other then the cable length issue, what's your objection?
> I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX > case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will > have a problem with. -Dave
For $70, I wouldn't have been any skin off their back to toss in an extention adapter. Although, I think the *best* solution would be to include cable length measurements with the PS stats, which would allow a person to measure beforehand, and buy an extention seperately if needed.
Actually, it seems like a better idea to put PSs on the bottom, thus keeping the heaviest component as low as possible. It make the case less like to tip over if hit, and it also makes the case more stable to handle when you have to carry it somewhere.
I'm not sure if there was any specific reasoning as to why they started off putting them on top in the first place, but *that* decision seems a little odd.
On 2009-12-19, Jan Alter <bear...@verizon.net> wrote:
> In agreement that the Gigabyte response to the oscillation is ridiculous. > But since the warranty is now voided and you have the noise problem I might > try throwing in some fabricated rubber washers between the PS and the case > to just try to limit any kind of vibration and see if it could help to stop > the noise.
Oh god, I've already tried everything that I can think of to isolate those damn noises. I tried soft washers between the screws and the case, and the PS already rests on pads that are build into the case bottom. I tried building a custom enclosure the absorb the noise, but they're just to intense to contain (although the enclosure does an excellent job of dulling all the other sounds in the case).
Actually, I can stop the rapid occilation if I press down on the top of the PS and hold it with my hand, so I'm guessing that the metal of the case is just too thin, and it's sort of bouncing up and down. I tried gluing a small 1/8 inch thick metal plate on top of it to try and reinforce it a little, but that didn't work.
> If it doesn't then it's completely a problem from within the PS > case and for that I would be contacting Gigabyte for either a replacement or > refund of your money. Adding a few inches of wire onto the cpu connector > would have nothing to do with the oscillation.
I've still got a use for it, so it's not a total loss. My dad wants my old computer, so I'm going to swap out my old PS with this one. His hearing isn't as good as mine, so that should solve that problem. :)
In message <slrnhirfru.lf2.Shadow...@shadowtek.localdomain> ShadowTek <Shadow...@invalid.invalid> was claimed to have wrote:
>On 2009-12-19, Dave C. <no...@nohow.never> wrote:
>> I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX >> case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will >> have a problem with. -Dave
>For $70, I wouldn't have been any skin off their back to toss in an >extention adapter. Although, I think the *best* solution would be to include >cable length measurements with the PS stats, which would allow a person >to measure beforehand, and buy an extention seperately if needed.
>Actually, it seems like a better idea to put PSs on the bottom, thus >keeping the heaviest component as low as possible. It make the case less >like to tip over if hit, and it also makes the case more stable to >handle when you have to carry it somewhere.
This is a pretty major benefit, my P180 is massively heavy, but it's very stable due to having such a low center of gravity with the PSU and drives mounted as low as possible.
The concept of separate head-zones is handy too, as is the better airflow at and around the CPU.
>I'm not sure if there was any specific reasoning as to why they started >off putting them on top in the first place, but *that* decision seems a >little odd.
I suspect it wasn't an intentional design decision, as much as just the way things ended up when desktop cases got turned on their sides and we got towers.
<DeathToS...@crazyhat.net> wrote: >In message <20091219211331.c9c1e1f9.no...@nohow.never> "Dave C." ><no...@nohow.never> was claimed to have wrote:
>>Gigabyte was right to bitch about the design of your case. >>Unfortunately, Gigabyte chose the wrong reason to pan it. Obviously >>cases with bottom mount power supplies can be very sturdily >>constructed. But it's just plain WRONG to put the power supply on the >>bottom. Most (almost all, probably) power supplies have cords that are >>two short for this configuration. >>Note I know that there is a new standard called BTX, but it was >>supposed to be mainstream years ago. I'll bet most readers of this ng >>still haven't heard of it, so... >>I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX >>case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will >>have a problem with. -Dave
>Wrong... Why? Other then the cable length issue, what's your objection?
IMO, a power supply can be put anywhere, so long as the system doesn't really "need" the airflow pattern created by it's exhaust fan, has supplimental fans instead.
The larger issue is when a board isn't designed for this, as we see in this topic when the cables need routed to the opposite end of the case across everything. For this reason I blame the combo of motherboard and case more than PSU and (everything else), but ultimately there is a problem chosing a BTX case if you don't want to use a motherboard with a power socket in the right place.
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:24:40 +0000 (UTC), ShadowTek
<Shadow...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >On 2009-12-19, Jan Alter <bear...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> In agreement that the Gigabyte response to the oscillation is ridiculous. >> But since the warranty is now voided and you have the noise problem I might >> try throwing in some fabricated rubber washers between the PS and the case >> to just try to limit any kind of vibration and see if it could help to stop >> the noise.
>Oh god, I've already tried everything that I can think of to isolate >those damn noises. I tried soft washers between the screws and the case, >and the PS already rests on pads that are build into the case bottom. I >tried building a custom enclosure the absorb the noise, but they're just >to intense to contain (although the enclosure does an excellent job of >dulling all the other sounds in the case).
Are you sure it's the PSU? If so there's only one thing it could be, an imbalance fan. Swapping the fan should resolve the problem, though a fan that bad would have been a reasonable reason to return the unit for replacement or refund.
>Actually, I can stop the rapid occilation if I press down on the top of >the PS and hold it with my hand, so I'm guessing that the metal of the >case is just too thin, and it's sort of bouncing up and down. I tried >gluing a small 1/8 inch thick metal plate on top of it to try and >reinforce it a little, but that didn't work.
Ok, but sometimes vibrations make something else resonate. Pressing down isn't necessarily evidence, BUT if you were to stick a plastic drinking straw into the fan intake near the hub to stop the fan, with it no longer spinning and no other pressure applied to anything in the case the noise should stop.
>> If it doesn't then it's completely a problem from within the PS >> case and for that I would be contacting Gigabyte for either a replacement or >> refund of your money. Adding a few inches of wire onto the cpu connector >> would have nothing to do with the oscillation.
>I've still got a use for it, so it's not a total loss. My dad wants my >old computer, so I'm going to swap out my old PS with this one. >His hearing isn't as good as mine, so that should solve that problem. :)
A significantly imbalanced fan will wear out faster. It could be worth the expense of a new fan, or merely time if you already have a suitable one, to replace the fan now rather than possibly having to do so later... especially when the modification to the wiring has voided the warranty so if it fails in only a year you have no recourse but to buy a new PSU.
Dave C. wrote: > I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX > case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will > have a problem with. -Dave
Do you make a habit of talking bollocks in every post?
"SteveH" <steve.houghREM...@THISblueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > Dave C. wrote:
> > I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX > > case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers > > will have a problem with. -Dave
> Do you make a habit of talking bollocks in every post?
> -- > SteveH
Do you know how many people complain about their brand new power supply not fitting their case because the power supply is mounted on the bottom? It seems at least 9 out of 10 builds with these oddball cases, the first problem that needs to be ironed out is that the cables won't reach where they need to go. Some few builders do their research carefully enough to avoid the problem...or they get lucky and the PSU they chose just (coincidentally) turned out to be one that fits OK. But the bottom mount really does create problems for builders...especially inexperienced ones. -Dave
> I'm not sure if there was any specific reasoning as to why they > started off putting them on top in the first place, but *that* > decision seems a little odd.
Many computers were cooled with only one cooling fan. That is the one that was mounted on the back of the power supply. Air would be pulled through the case, then through the power supply, then exhausted out the back of the power supply. Therefore it made sense for the bottom/back of the PSU to be mounted as high as possible in the case. That's the direction all the hot air was going anyway, so it made cooling more efficient to have the PSU way up top.
The PSU still assists somewhat in cooling the case...and more importantly the components in the case. The only advantage to having the PSU bottom mounted is that the PSU fan will be drawing more cool air into the PSU itself. In turn, this means you need a shitload of airflow to cool the case (and components like the northbridge, CPU and GPU in particular), because much of your cool intake air is now going down low where it's not cooling a damned thing. -Dave
> >I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX > >case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers > >will have a problem with. -Dave
> Wrong... Why? Other then the cable length issue, what's your > objection?
You need a shitload of extra fans (adding extra noise) to counter-balance the fact that much of your cool intake air is going in the wrong direction to cool anything. -Dave
Dave C. wrote: >>> I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX >>> case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers >>> will have a problem with. -Dave
>> Wrong... Why? Other then the cable length issue, what's your >> objection?
> You need a shitload of extra fans (adding extra noise) to > counter-balance the fact that much of your cool intake air is going in > the wrong direction to cool anything. -Dave
Complete and utter rubbish. You just need a properly designed case and system.
We have two systems running here in Antec P180's (PSU in the bottom). One has a Q6600 the other a C2D e6750. I doubt if you stood anywhere in this room with a decibel meter, it would register anything much (if anything). Yet both CPU's are running at <35c I suggest before making stupid comments, you actually take the time to have a look at some of these cases. -- SteveH
Dave C. wrote: > On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:11:28 GMT > "SteveH" <steve.houghREM...@THISblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Dave C. wrote:
>>> I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX >>> case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers >>> will have a problem with. -Dave
>> Do you make a habit of talking bollocks in every post?
>> -- >> SteveH
> Do you know how many people complain about their brand new power > supply not fitting their case because the power supply is mounted on > the bottom?
And whose fault is that? The case maker or the builder for not checking specs in the first place?
It seems at least 9 out of 10 builds with these oddball
> cases, the first problem that needs to be ironed out is that the > cables won't reach where they need to go.
See above
Some few builders do their
> research carefully enough to avoid the problem...or they get lucky > and the PSU they chose just (coincidentally) turned out to be one > that fits OK. But the bottom mount really does create problems for > builders...
> On 2009-12-19, Dave C. <no...@nohow.never> wrote:
>> I think it is wrong to put the power supply in the bottom of an ATX >> case. It's just plain stupid to design a box that most customers will >> have a problem with. -Dave
> For $70, I wouldn't have been any skin off their back to toss in an > extention adapter. Although, I think the *best* solution would be to > include > cable length measurements with the PS stats, which would allow a person > to measure beforehand, and buy an extention seperately if needed.
> Actually, it seems like a better idea to put PSs on the bottom, thus > keeping the heaviest component as low as possible. It make the case less > like to tip over if hit, and it also makes the case more stable to > handle when you have to carry it somewhere.
> I'm not sure if there was any specific reasoning as to why they started > off putting them on top in the first place, but *that* decision seems a > little odd.
For my last upgrade and migration I used a couple of Antec 300s, and have no problem with them or the fact that the PSU is on the bottom of the case. I think the large fans on the top and at the back corner, setup a very good airflow, better than what a PSU at the top would provide.
On 2009-12-20, DevilsPGD <DeathToS...@crazyhat.net> wrote:
> The concept of separate head-zones is handy too, as is the better > airflow at and around the CPU.
One thing that's nice about my current case is there's a 23cm fan on the top exhausting air outward. Having the PS on the bottom allows for that large flow of uninterrupted air making its way out of the top, which also seems natural since "up" is the direction that hot air wants to go anyway.
> Many computers were cooled with only one cooling fan. That is the one > that was mounted on the back of the power supply. Air would be pulled > through the case, then through the power supply, then exhausted out the > back of the power supply. Therefore it made sense for the bottom/back > of the PSU to be mounted as high as possible in the case. That's the > direction all the hot air was going anyway, so it made cooling more > efficient to have the PSU way up top.
Oh yeah, my first computer was like that. I forgot all about the fact that they didn't use seperate case fans. lol
> The PSU still assists somewhat in cooling the case...and more > importantly the components in the case. The only advantage to having > the PSU bottom mounted is that the PSU fan will be drawing more cool > air into the PSU itself. In turn, this means you need a shitload of > airflow to cool the case (and components like the northbridge, CPU and > GPU in particular), because much of your cool intake air is now going > down low where it's not cooling a damned thing. -Dave
Oh, my case has a shitload of airflow anyway. I've got a 23cm in the top, another one of the side pushing in, 2 14cm fans on the front cooling the 2 HD racks, and a 12cm in the rear pushing out.
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